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In this episode, Erin Miles Cloud joins pop culture besties Shannon Perez-Darby and Tashmica Torok for a breakdown of the Law & Order: SVU episode Hubris. Erin is the co-founder of Movement for Family Power and co-editor of How to End Family Policing: From Outrage to Action alongside Shannon, Erica Miners, and Charity Hope Tolliver.

Erin is a civil rights attorney and a former family defense public defender in the Bronx. She has spent her career fighting to end family policing and building toward a world where communities — not the state — care for children. It is with that depth of experience that Erin joins the conversation, guiding us through the ways the Family Policing System fails us all.

But that's not where we end. This conversation ends with a vision for what the future could look like if we truly cared for children the way we say we do.